The Random Thread

[freedom]

here's a random thought, who has had awesome and memorable birthdays they wish to share!
mine for the last 10years have been rather sucky espically when trying to make friendships where i've lived, and kept in contact with old ones.

but i do believe one birthday i don't know how but my birthday will be off the hook! :eusa-clap:

[ThyneAlone]

Ok this is truly random born of my passion for language. Typical modern linguist, lol. It was when someone mentioned cobbler on the chatbox and I had to ask what it was, and I thought, what a great richness of language that we all have these different words and expressions, that US English has so many great words that we can share here on the other side of the pond. I once started a list of all the things I could think of that have different appellations in the US, and I still haven't finished it! Hoods and bonnets and trunks and boots, who knew? Fantastic.

But that's not the point. Just the introduction (competition, Sherry?!). At the weekend when I had that appalling feverish bug we had a much-anticipated amazing and rare visit from our two best friends, who happen to be married. Actually got to sit down round a delicious meal and a glass of wine and be convivial. With my sons making us all laugh and generally socialising superbly instead of withdrawing to their rooms (goodness, have they grown up!). Cue all sorts of catching up and interesting discussions. And then we got onto language (my best friend is a girl I met doing German when I was doing my French/German degree at uni) and to my astonishment, I found a major source of disagreement between us! Son no.1 – the French graduate – had mentioned how Americanised spellings irritate him. Don’t worry; I’ll soon beat that out of him. And Best Friend chimes in with how she hates the way this ‘bastardised’ version has taken over everywhere when it’s basically wrong, and we should all use ‘proper’ original English when we are teaching it to non-English speakers!!

Well!! Gobsmacked is not the word. How can anyone who has studied language not realise that the absolutely stunning thing about language is its organic quality, how it grows and changes to mould round the people who use it and adopt new ideas. How in 200 years most intonation, grammar and spelling acceptable now will have mutated maybe beyond recognition, communication being as rapid and international as it now is, and how it is ridiculous feeling threatened by variants which actually enrich us in many ways. Yes there will be loss (hubby thinks Shakespeare may go, but that might have happened anyway, hey?) but gain too. Anyhow, personally I see us as branches of the same tree. I don’t see US English as an offshoot that needs taming and I don’t see anything wrong with US defaults on computers etc when at this time the culture is so dominant. Surely you can’t see something as wrong, if it’s used to communicate.

But if you don’t think that is a controversial thing to say, if you think it is not worth the argument I had with my friends, consider this: how do you feel about textspeak? It is, after all, a valid means of communication!

[stargazer]

Wow! This is a great topic because I've always been fascinated with the differences of the English language between the US and Europe. I think "bastardised" is a bit harsh, but I'll have to admit that Americans tend to butcher the language without a thought about it. I'm originally from the southwest US, so when I moved to FL it was a complete culture shock and that included the language. I still can't used to people using the term "y'all" all the time and I will never use it. It's not a word! LOL!! (and there I go with the textspeak) Anyway, there were other words used here that were said in a different context than I was taught as a child, and sometimes it took me a while to figure out what was meant in a conversation. I still find myself rolling my eyes or laughing to myself when I hear something that is clearly a "southern" term. But I also find myself subconsciously saying or thinking things that are more southern since I've lived here for 10 years now.

I'm a big fan of Harry Potter and I thought it was quite interesting how J.K. Rowling had to change certain words for the American versions of the books just because they had different meanings here in the US. I have to admit that it took me while to figure out that "trainers" were shoes and not someone who helps you in a gym, and that a "jumper" was a jacket and not a type of little girl's dress. There were many other examples, but I won't get into them. Anyway, the point is is that we should all embrace our differences instead of criticizing. Like Steph said, we are all just branches on the same tree. I love that analogy!

[skftex]

Well Steph, of course I have no problem with American English, as long as it is really English. I detest text speak and don't use it even when I text, which of course means it takes me forever to write a text and maybe that defeats the whole reason for texting in the first place but I can't help it. I do think the reason I hate it though is that people have started using it in places other than texts. I have seen so many college students that cannot write a decent paper and who are just SHOCKED when they receive their graded paper, then are showing it to me and I nearly faint from trying to read it, as it is full of run on sentences and misspelled words and yes, sometimes even text speak. It is fine for texting but I don't feel it has a place anywhere else. I don't even like seeing it in chats! (By the way, TJ texts in sentences and rarely text speak, even though he never uses capital letters, but he does that in e-mails too HAHA).

While I do not always speak properly, and sometimes I purposely say things that are not proper, I think knowing how to do it properly is important. But of course, you are right, the language changes and words come and go, so I'm not sure what sort of "proper" original English could be taught. How do you decide at which time the English was "proper"? Grammar basically stays the same though don't you think? Other than the argument about the Oxford comma (which I think is necessary but others do not) the basic structure hasn't changed all that much, and should be taught.

And just to add something, to hear someone say "I seen it" just drives me up a wall, so teachers need to teach that seen isn't used without the word have, and they either saw it or have seen it before I have to kill myself the next time I hear it used.

Oh Kathy, a jumper isn't a jacket it is what we call a sweater I believe. And Y'all most definitely IS a word (says the Texan HAHAHA).

[stargazer]

I stand corrected! I still won't say y'all. ....but I guess I just did.

[skftex]

Actually I don't say y'all either really. HAHA

[ThyneAlone]

Ooh! Ooh! This is wonderful! Other people that care! Thank you, ladies.

I do think the reason I hate it though is that people have started using it in places other than texts.

True. If a genre of language arises for a specific reason it is a bit of a pain to have it bleeding into everything else. And it actually bars communication if it is so specialised other groups (like teachers!) don’t understand it. If you are going to write essays, use the appropriate form. There are appropriate, accepted conventions and they usually make sense. As in, do you really think you are going to get a real live job f u don’t no or cant c how 2 pt 2 wrds 2getha in ur own lang, roflmao?

While I do not always speak properly, and sometimes I purposely say things that are not proper, I think knowing how to do it properly is important.

Oh yes oh yes oh yes. Break the rules with confidence once you have learned what they are. It’s pretty obvious that there is a difference between the stream-of-consciousness last chapter of Ulysses and the endless diarrhoeic spillage of someone unfamiliar with full stops (that’s ‘periods’ to you lot – always makes me laugh). I think it is a bit like the difference between great painters who experiment, having learned their trade, and mediocre ones who break the rules because they are just plain unskilled.

How do you decide at which time the English was "proper"?

Yep. Another argument I used last Saturday! It’s not as if we all still spoke Chaucerian English. And ‘English’ English, spoken and written, has changed immensely even since the start of last century. Anyone remember RP? US English split off long before those changes.

Grammar basically stays the same though don't you think? Other than the argument about the Oxford comma (which I think is necessary but others do not) the basic structure hasn't changed all that much, and should be taught.

Well, grammar does change but more slowly than speech. And people still do teach slightly differing versions of it. I was actually taught that the Oxford comma was wrong and should be avoided, but I use it sometimes to avoid confusion. And that’s the whole point of grammar. You are right, it should be taught, and prized. You have to have a structure, a beautiful, at its best transparent structure, that orders your thoughts and makes them clear to others. Use the wrong grammar and you are lost – immediately people are paying more attention to the way you said something than to its actual content. Communication fails instantly.

And just to add something, to hear someone say "I seen it" just drives me up a wall, so teachers need to teach that seen isn't used without the word have, and they either saw it or have seen it before I have to kill myself the next time I hear it used.

Oh, we all have our special bugbears, even free-thinking I/me! Kathy’s ‘y’all’, your ‘seen’ - and I have so many! I absolutely hate (h8? Lol) hearing the media use the past tense ‘wreaked’ (as in havoc). It doesn’t exist, people! The word is ‘wrought’!

Oh Kathy, a jumper isn't a jacket it is what we call a sweater I believe.

Indeed. Sweater or pullover. Take your pick. Harry Potter is brilliant, but it does tend to
propagate the long-outlived English boarding school image. Oh yes, they still exist, but not quite like Hogwarts!

[skftex]

Ooh! Ooh! This is wonderful! Other people that care! Thank you, ladies.

Yep. Another argument I used last Saturday! It’s not as if we all still spoke Chaucerian English. And ‘English’ English, spoken and written, has changed immensely even since the start of last century. Anyone remember RP? US English split off long before those changes.

And even in Chaucer's work, depending on the character, they spoke differently didn't they? (I did read part of Canterbury Tales but found it very dull. HAHA) But I seem to remember (maybe incorrectly HAHA) that each one was a different "trade" and didn't seem to speak quite the same way, just as people in different regions sound differently. Or even in the same region, some speak differently because of their education.

Well, grammar does change but more slowly than speech. And people still do teach slightly differing versions of it. I was actually taught that the Oxford comma was wrong and should be avoided, but I use it sometimes to avoid confusion. And that’s the whole point of grammar. You are right, it should be taught, and prized. You have to have a structure, a beautiful, at its best transparent structure, that orders your thoughts and makes them clear to others. Use the wrong grammar and you are lost – immediately people are paying more attention to the way you said something than to its actual content. Communication fails instantly.

A lot of people were taught it wasn't necessary but sometimes it is I think. In one of my favorite examples, "Lets eat grandma!" "Lets eat, grandma!" I don't have a grandma to eat but but I probably wouldn't want to if I did.

Oh, we all have our special bugbears, even free-thinking I/me! Kathy’s ‘y’all’, your ‘seen’ - and I have so many! I absolutely hate (h8? Lol) hearing the media use the past tense ‘wreaked’ (as in havoc). It doesn’t exist, people! The word is ‘wrought’!

Ah, another I have a problem with, is suddenly all these people who are on TV are saying "Myself" when it should be ME or I. It is like they think they sound smarter saying "myself" but they just sound stupid to me.

[ThyneAlone]

A lot of people were taught it wasn't necessary but sometimes it is I think. In one of my favorite examples, "Lets eat grandma!" "Lets eat, grandma!" I don't have a grandma to eat but I probably wouldn't want to if I did.

That's not an Oxford comma, Sharon. Though a very funny and apposite example. An Oxford (otherwise known as serial)comma is the one that precedes 'and' or 'or' at the end of a list.

As in: He was accompanied by his two ex-wives, Mark and Andrew - an ambiguity rescued by the Oxford comma : He was accompanied by his two ex-wives, Mark, and Andrew.

[skftex]

Ah right! His two ex wives are Mark and Andrew.

[Sinkwriter72]

Holy frick, is it ever cold outside!

I am FREEZING tonight.

Temp says it's 2 degrees F and feels like 10 below zero with the wind chill. Yeah, I'm feeling it.

*shiver shiver shiver*

Why do I live in a state that gets this cold??

[stargazer]

Come down and visit Florida! We're having an abnormally warm winter. I hate that I still have to worry about getting bit by mosquitos in the middle of winter! LOL

[stargazer]

I just noticed that I'm no longer just a "Fan" but now I'm a "Super Fan". YAY!

[Sinkwriter72]

Yay for Super Fans!

[Sinkwriter72]

Has anyone here ever sold anything on ebay? I ask because I've never done it before, and I'm wondering how it works. I noticed a section about seller's fees that the seller (in other words, me) would owe if the item is sold, but it doesn't specify how much those fees would be, so I'm feeling leery.

Any advice/information you can provide would be very helpful, thanks!

[stargazer]

Well, I've never personally sold anything on EBay but my husband has and he says that they charge a listing fee as well as a percentage of the asking price of the item. I'm not exactly sure what the % is, but I have a feeling that it's gone up since the last time we sold anything about 5 years ago. I would be leery of it too. Unless it's an expensive item or you're selling a lot of something, it may not be worth it. Hope that helps a little!

[skftex]

I haven't but here is a general idea of how it works (with some percentages listed...)

http://www.ehow.com/how_5521416_calcula ... -fees.html

[Sinkwriter72]

Thanks, ladies! Food for thought.

[TJ4ever]

Just finished the last season of MONK. That was a great series! And I became a fan when it was already finished! It was sad watching the last ep - just knowing it was the last. The ep was cool! Did anyone watch MONK? Tony Shalhoub was so great in it. I somehow wished he'd get a new partner. I hoped that would be Natalie. Is that crazy? It's just the way I wanted it to end. Well, ok, just me then!

[freedom]

Ok maybe its me! I certainly enjoy the US treats that are around, but nothing sets the mood when watching Bones. Here our my top nibbles and drinks: what do you guys like?
1. Grilled Cheese (if its a particular gross ep) the cheese says it in colour lol!
2. Root Beer (as I don't drink it makes me sick)
3. Milk Duds (When I realise that I'm still single and see how far the characters have come)
4. Junior Mints (Like to feel I'm old enough to eat them lol whatever that means)
5. Jelly Bean Sour Cherry soda (as Sweets is getting to big for his boots)
6. Sweet and Salty Popcorn (Cliff Hanger alert)
7. Lemon/Raspberry/Red Zinger (when Booth annoys me fyi all the time)
8. Hersey Kisses (daydreaming when Hodgins picks me from the crowd)

Ok i now its all crazy random but thought you would get a kick out of my zany humour.