Offtopic Sofa Time

New arrivals, including the hello threads and the sofa.
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ThyneAlone
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by ThyneAlone »

Oh goodness! You poor girl. Here...
<<<HUGE HUGE HUG>>>

I'm afraid you aren't the first person I know who has suffered from the slings and arrows of outrageous and vicious individuals on other forums who seem to be more into personal flame wars and bullying than genuinely sharing thoughts and commentary. I don't understand why it gets so personal, so muckthrowing. Why do people imagine that they can go nose to nose into your personal space just because it's a virtual space? <<shakes head>> And then some of these boards have megalomaniac mods getting involved in the trading of insults.

All I can say is that, although things may change as we get to be bigger, as far as I'm concerned, we are creating a safe, caring space, because that is what TJ would do and that is what he would like done. I want this to be a genuine, intelligent forum for people's ideas and I want to prove that such a haven can exist. If, later on, we need to be tough on trolls, so be it. I am inordinately proud and respectful of the wonderful people on here, that we listen to one another, comfort and support each other, have fun together. We'll always accept your discussions here, Sherry; we know you're not trying to foist your opinion on us bloodymindedly, and that you are not playing a power game. Because we care about you. <<HUG>> again. Sit down and relax. Hot chocolate? It's a great sofa, this!
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Sinkwriter72
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by Sinkwriter72 »

*chin wobbling*

Oh, Steph. You always know the right things to say. Thank you so much. And that huge hug was awesome! As was Sharon's hilarious group hugs. Heee.

Seriously, I'm all weepy, and I'm usually not too troubled when people disagree with me. This person was just really cutting about it, and to make things worse, in a roundabout way she insulted TJ which really pissed me off, but I just wasn't going to stoop to her level and get into it with her about it. Instead, I tried to respectfully and logically present my side, but ... *shakes head* I really doubt that person listened. She didn't respond at all though, after I posted my reply, so I'm thinking she realized she couldn't argue with my points. Because it wasn't about anything angry nor did it lash back at her in any way. Can't argue with someone who doesn't push back? ;)

Anyway, I really appreciate what you guys are doing here with this site, and I believe it will always be that wonderful, because you want it to be and TJ wants it to be, and you approach it in a loving, thoughtful, responsible manner. I think you're awesome, and I love you for it!

Hugs to Sharon and Steph! LOVE! :D
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ThyneAlone
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by ThyneAlone »

ooooh that feels nice. Oooh, validate me again..no..just there...ooh.
:oops: Thanks Sherry. It means a lot that people are happy with what we are doing here. Believe me, those antagonists of yours are the ones who lose out by rejecting someone of your talent and calibre. Good luck to them; it doesn't sound like they are into the exchange of real ideas. <<cuddle>>
Oh and btw, TMI over PMT? Got the T-shirt!
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by skftex »

Sinkwriter72 wrote:*chin wobbling*

Anyway, I really appreciate what you guys are doing here with this site, and I believe it will always be that wonderful, because you want it to be and TJ wants it to be, and you approach it in a loving, thoughtful, responsible manner. I think you're awesome, and I love you for it!

Hugs to Sharon and Steph! LOVE! :D
And because TJ IS AWESOME so how could the site be anything else but AWESOME!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Sinkwriter72
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by Sinkwriter72 »

Well, I think that person thought I was slamming David, because I jokingly said (according to how he answered a question -- a question I posted, by the way -- in an online interview), "David and I clearly disagree on the definition and execution of 'character development'." :D

Basically, my question asked him about the goofy side of Booth that we see this season and how Sweets has been taking over some of Booth's 'gut instinct' interrogation duties, and if he could speak about that. Obviously I worded it more thoroughly than that. LOL. ;)

Anyway, David said a few things... well, let me give you his exact quote so I don't paraphrase and put words in his mouth: "This season has really been character-driven, more so than the past, because they finally figured out what I was telling them from the beginning, that you should really have the characters drive it. It's been about character and the development of relationship, which I think is a lot better. I mean, who wants to see Booth go in and scream and holler and get all pissy with some guy? Maybe that will happen in a few episodes to come, there's a scene that we're shooting now where he'll get pretty intense in the interrogation room, but he uses his wits and instincts in a smarter way. I remember the first season, I'd just get all hyped up and throw people around."

I happen to disagree with that last comment. I don't happen to see Booth that way (slamming people up against the wall); I think there's a lot more to him than that (which I also pointed out in my comments over there, how I loved it when Booth would get all smirky and realize just how to speak to the suspect in order to get the info he needed -- which had nothing to do with slamming anyone against the wall). I also think there's a big difference between 'character driven' meaning 'focusing on the characters more than the cases,' which they've definitely been doing this season, versus 'character driven' meaning 'moving the characters forward emotionally,' which I'm not sure they've really managed to accomplish as much as David seems to think they have. Respectfully speaking, of course. *smiles*

Regardless, people were commenting about the interview, so I popped on to thank the interviewer for using my question. (And it's clear she has some issues with the direction of the Booth character this season, too, because on her own she asked about the beer hat and said the Booth she knew from the earlier seasons wouldn't wear a beer hat or do some of the things he's been doing this season. Also, she pointed out to David that she felt the show used to have a better 'balance of character and procedure,' which I thought was especially telling.) Like I said, I then jokingly said that if David and I were ever to meet, we would probably argue about what we each feel is 'character development' and the approach to making something 'character driven.' I said other things to clarify, but the person who read my statement just slammed me for it, saying I was mean to David and I shouldn't watch the show and obviously I hated his character (!) and why do people have to analyze everything to death and all I obviously care about is my own opinion, if I didn't want to hear David's answer, I shouldn't have asked the question, etc.

Wow. :shock:

I never said anything of the sort. I love all the characters on the show, each for different reasons. And the whole reason I started watching Bones was because I was already a fan of David's and wanted to check out his next project. *shakes head* I also never said David wasn't allowed to have his own opinion, I just said I found it funny that we obviously have different views on the question and on his character and what's happening with his character this season. But she just thought I was horrible and obnoxious and rude and self-centered and... *heavy sigh* I didn't take her bait and get into a David vs. TJ discussion because that's just pointless, nor did I get into a defensive conversation, either.

Instead, I simply said that just because I said David and I have a difference of opinions, in no way am I invalidating David's opinions (or my own). We simply don't seem to share the same opinion about effective character development. I said perhaps if we sat down and had a discussion, eventually we might come to an agreement (or a compromise), maybe we wouldn't, maybe we'd have to agree to disagree, but my opinions about those aspects of the program are not invalid just because they don't happen to mesh with David's opinion or the poster's opinion or what the poster feels the 'majority' of the fans care about. Also, I didn't think I was being a bad Bones fan by having a strong opinion or offering examples. I said I would be more than happy to discuss examples of good things I like about the show, but my main comment was in response to how David answered my question, so that is what I talked about when commenting. I also said I sincerely didn't understand the idea that if I don't love every inch of a show, I should shut up and simply stop watching. I said, I love this show and all its characters, and I appreciate the balance it used to present so beautifully, and it's because of those aspects of the show that I have a strong opinion and want to see it do everything well and want to know why the writers chose the approaches that they did, especially as I see the show shift abruptly to a direction that baffles me. To wrap up, I pointed out that not everyone approaches TV viewing in the same way. Some are not interested in detailed discussion; not all are wired to be interested in that. I said, that's valid, but so is watching with a critical eye (not a negative eye, but a critical one) and getting involved in discussion about character and plot and whatever else interests us. It doesn't mean we're being negative, it simply means we like to examine the details, especially if those show details affect us emotionally in an amazing way, or in contrast, aren’t working as well as they could. For me, it's all about the discussion. It's what writers do. It's how ideas come about. That's the way my particular brain works. I can't shut that off. So I said I hoped she could at least understand that, and if she didn't share my personal views, that was fine; we'd just have to agree to disagree.

I tried to be as respectful as I could, while still standing up for myself, ut I have to say, her attitude just made me so crabby, and I hated that. It also amazes me how many people don't seem to be reading my post at all. They just pop on and comment about how they hate 'negative' posters and why don't I just shut up and chill out? *heavy sigh* I give up. These are people I just can't connect with, I guess. If they're not even going to try to understand things from my point of view, or talk with me in a respectful way that will help me to better understand their point of view, there's really not much more I can say. Frankly, it was exhausting. *shakes head*

Again, I'm just SO grateful to all of you for your willingness to simply TALK and DISCUSS and LISTEN and be respectful. And I will continue to try to give you the same respect and kindness in my reading of your posts and comments. :hugs you all:
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Geishawannab
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by Geishawannab »

Oh Sherry, this is what I meant aout other discussion boards, it can get very scary out there! I AM SO glad I came here and joined, you guys are actually HUMAN!

I don't know what you said about the show, but that weirdo was way out of line attacking you like that! I mean, it just's common curtesy right? Even if we don't always agree, we can agree to disagree and respect each other's opinions without getting nasty.

I think it's just plain ignorance on that loser's part. It shows how little tact and diplomacy some people have.

I for one would love to hear what you had to say about last night's show. I posted my thoughts and I love to read others', even if I don't always agree. Isn't that the whole point of a DISCUSSION board? You'd figure some people are smarter than that.

Well, here's a big hug from me ((((((OOOOOOOOO)))))

mc
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Geishawannab
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by Geishawannab »

Well Sherry, kudos to you. I just read your post about your opinion regarding character development and the interview you had with David and it seems fine to me. Some people are just more touchy than others and they can't be critical in an objective manner. At least you kept your cool and didn't back off completely, but you stayed objective and polite. A lesser person would not have acted the same.

When I say it seems fine, I mean I can understand your point. I personally could see the beer hat on Booth at that point, along with the "graphic novel" he was perusing in the bathtub (God you gotta love that scene!) but hey, that's just me.

I'm not one to point out every detail, but that's okay too. I actually find it fascinating when someone points something out I hadn't noticed or hadn't thought of before. It's fun and interesting that way.

Well, in any case, I'm sure you're glad to be back. :)

mc
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Lonia
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by Lonia »

A big hug from me too, Sherry.

I can understand that this was exhausting. I am not a member of many boards, but of course I read posts in some more boards than I'm a member of. And that, the unrespectful and sometimes even nasty behaviour or just the way people "talk" with each other, often was one of the reasons to keep away and don't join one of the boards.

I mean everybody has his own opinion (or at least should have) and this makes a good discussion. If one person points out something and everybody else just have to agree (I agree, you are right, I say exactly the same) how boring or short would that conversation be?

Sometimes you have a different opinion than your best friend, your family, your colleagues, so why shouldn't you be allowed to have a different opinion than the star of a show? I haven't seen much of season 4 (I don't even know all episodes of season 3 yet), so I personally can't say if I agree with David or your point of view, but I totally respect your opinion.

I don't know what else this person wrote - or the others who probably really haven't read your statement but just picked some phrases of the entire discussion that, in their opinion, gave them the right, to attack you too (you bad fan :wink: ). But, generally spoken, I don't think it's good to agree with "everything" somebody else - even when it's your absolutely favourite star - says. I really can adore somebody, no matter if it's someone in your private life, a star, a writer... and anyway can disagree with something he (or she) said. This doesn't mean my admiration or the way I feel for this person changes.

I hope anything of the things I wrote make sense. I really needed long for this post.

I just joined, but this really is a great site with nice and respectful people. Steph and Sharon (is there anybody else responsable? :oops: ), you're doing a great work here.
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ThyneAlone
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by ThyneAlone »

Woooo! :mrgreen: Look at that Sherry, you are supported big time. That other person was entitled to an opinion, obviously (same as you!), but didn't think you were, simply because you disagreed with her - and she couldn't be bothered to read enough of what you said to realise that you were not attacking her POV, just expressing another one. I'm not surprised you are angry and frustrated. People are all so different, and the fact that they can't respect their differences is the reason for a lot of carbuncles on society's backside...

Lonia, Sharon and I thank you for your lovely compliments. There are a couple of others in the background - Ben, who's the admin here and does the practical stuff (security, alteration of permissions, bans) for me on the forums, plus webmastering with Sharon, and Rebecca, who is my backup mod and éminence grise. Sharon does the vast majority of the work you see on the main site, including the oh-so-appreciated updates, sorting out email for TJ and keeping in regular touch with him; and I stick around as a visible presence on the message boards. It's my job to help puzzled people, to regulate discussion, make important announcements, stimulate fresh ideas by generating and replying to new threads, move threads and split them if we need to 'tidy up', warn those who post pigheadedly, controversially or totally irrelevantly, etc. My basic rule is that if TJ wouldn't want stuff here it doesn't get in. And that offtopic material stays in the allotted areas.

Anyone who's new here should recognise us from our 'badges' - we are all known as TJ Team Validators, in homage to 'Validation'. Come to us at any time if you have a suggestion or query - that's what we're here for.
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ThyneAlone
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by ThyneAlone »

I've read it now. I totally see what you mean. I think...*thinks* ...I think that there seem to be definite types of people in these discussions. There are the fans who won't listen to a word against the show as long as it is moving towards a BB dénouement. They are the ones who consider it disloyal not to be completely positive at all times. I don't like them getting at you about your liking for what TJ does, it's entirely irrelevant to what you are arguing. There are those who want to discuss things seriously, like you, and have fun doing so. And there are the 'it's a telly programme, get a life, guys' people. All these views are valid ways of looking at Bones. Different personalities get different things out of it, and that is how it should be if the show is going to succeed. If you're going to be personally mean because someone else has another opinion, that's just silly. But hey, that's just my personal view...you may disagree if you like! ;)
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ThyneAlone
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by ThyneAlone »

Hey. I reached 1000 posts!! Good or what!? :dance: :clap: :o
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Jude40
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by Jude40 »

Hi All

I’ve just caught up with this discussion about the bad experience Sherry had on another forum and just wanted to say that the other person obviously hasn’t got the intelligence or courtesy to have an intelligent discussion. You certainly shouldn’t let them get to you Sherry (although I know that’s easier said than done). I remember being on a forum just before ‘meth lab’ and people were talking about Brendan Fehr who was due to appear as Jared, some of the comments were really scary and very personal, presumably because of the whole B&B thing. I don’t participate in many forums but I just had to say something which went along the lines of, ‘it’s a show, not real life, he’s and actor doing his job and you need to get a grip on reality’.

Before I carry on I just want to make it quite clear that I am a massive fan of David Boreanaz as well as all the rest of the cast and I love the show as you will all no doubt realise. I have already said that, in my opinion, TJ and Emily give their characters more depth but the whole cast is cool.

However, for what it’s worth I actually agree over the character development issue. My own thoughts are that Booth is becoming a bit more of a caricature and, given the power that he has, I’m thinking that this is mostly David’s doing. I saw an interview with Emily Deschanel talking about David directing and how she would like the opportunity and I was thinking why is David any more qualified to direct than her or any of the cast for that matter, as far as I am aware his only experience is a couple of episodes of ‘Angel’. In fact if directing is in the genes then Emily should have a head start. What I’m trying to say is that I’m with Sherry on this and I am slightly concerned that David’s big influence may affect the show. In particular, it seems as though Brennan is trying to become more people orientated to connect with Booth, making this again a Boothcentric thing and taking something away from Brennan’s character.

I just think that the makers of the show should remember that one person does not make the success of a show, it’s the whole cast and crew that do that.

Finally Sherry don’t let your experience put you off and don’t take any s**t off anyone.

Catch you later


Jude x
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ThyneAlone
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by ThyneAlone »

Creepy, Jude. I agree with Every Single Word. What are you, my evil twin or something? LOL
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Jude40
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by Jude40 »

Hey you know what they say about great minds thinking alike!

Jude x
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skftex
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by skftex »

Very good Jude! I agree too! I like Booth and Brennan. And I like David Boreanaz as well (though I never watched Angel). And I do know that people do change, and some changes do occur by the people they have around them, so Brennan would naturally change by being around Booth, and Booth around Brennan. But the Booth character has been dumbed down too much, and I guess they are using that as a "connection" to Brennan, as per what Angela said. But it doesn't mean we all have to like it or agree with it and if we don't like what some of the characters are becoming, it doesn't make us BAD FANS!
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skftex
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by skftex »

Ah and thank you Lonia for the compliments on the site. We do want it to be a place that the fans want to continue to visit and we are still trying to change some things, it just takes a little time to get it all done. :)
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Sinkwriter72
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by Sinkwriter72 »

First of all... :romance-grouphug: Hugs all around, you beautiful people! Thank you so much for your warmth and kindness and support.

I'm telling you, I must have really held in my emotions about it yesterday, not taking that person's bait, because last night my jaw just ached, like I'd been clenching my teeth. I had to do some yoga breathing to get my body to loosen up and shake it all off. *shakes head* Isn't that ridiculous? It seems so silly to me, to get upset about such a thing, but I really was thrown. Maybe it's because the very few places online that I frequent have always been such wonderful places to converse. I've never really had people slam me for my comments before. Even when someone's strongly disagreed with me (or vice versa), we've managed to discuss it intelligently and come to an understanding of each other's perspective. And usually people are so open and willing to listen to each other, like here on TJ's site.

I was just so stunned at the level of anger coming from the other poster. And you know, I understand that she's probably a huge David fan and wanted to 'defend' him. But you know what? I'm a David fan, too! I watched him on Buffy and on Angel, I can name all sorts of moments and episodes of his work on those shows and on Bones that I think are just terrific; in fact, the whole reason I started watching Bones was because I wanted to check out David's new work. I liked what he was doing, and I was pleased to find that there were other actors on the show whose work I could appreciate as well. Heh. Like TJ. :D TJ seemed familiar to me at the time, and I was immediately drawn to his characterization of Hodgins, but I didn't realize how many other things I'd seen him in until I started to look up his resume. And then he just kept doing such marvelous things with his character, I couldn't help but be impressed. (Like I need to tell any of you that. *smiles*)

At any rate, I don't think a fan needs to get vicious in order to 'defend' her favorite actor. I would never call someone names or be mean to them or insult them. How is that behavior in service to (or in honor of) the actor? Also, I never said anything about David personally. I kept my comments strictly about the program and the direction it's taking (or not taking) with the characters. But I guess to that person, saying anything about David's character on the show IS attacking him personally, which is why she got so nasty. That, and she didn't like what I had to say. :?

Still, it baffles me, this behavior. Like all of you have said so eloquently, there are different types of posters out there and some aren't interested in detailed discussion. But as I tried to explain to that person (and to those who joined in, saying I should 'get a life' and 'stop watching Bones' and 'stop being negative'): there is a huge difference between 'negativity' and 'critical discussion.' If I were to post to that thread and say 'That episode sucked'... that's just being negative. There's no depth to that comment; it's simply mean (and pointless). But if I were to say, I don't think the episode reached the potential it could have, and here's why, based on these examples from the show... that's not being negative; that's having a discussion. People are free to disagree, they're free to point out what they thought DID work, they're free to change my mind (I actually love when that happens), and they're free to say, you know what? I didn't notice that before, and now I agree with you.

I've certainly been in both positions. There was a time when I held a specific opinion about an episode of a show, and another poster made a comment that made sense to me enough to change my mind. I could see the point she was making, I appreciated seeing the scene in another way that I hadn't considered, and I changed my mind about it after that. I thought that was really cool. Likewise, there was a time when I was watching a show and I thought they chose to handle an important, long-time-coming, emotional moment badly; they treated it like an MTV video montage instead of allowing us to get closer to the character in the scene and really feel and hear and see his anguish in the moment. I made my case for why I thought it didn't work, and suddenly a few other posters said, oh man, I hadn't even thought of that, you're right, it wasn't as effective as it could have been, now I wish they'd done it differently.

And when we have a conversation like that, I never assume you aren't a fan of the actors. Instead, I understand that you're talking specifically about the episode or the scene or something that worked or didn't work for you as a viewer. That's not meant to be cruel, it's not slamming the actor, and it's not meant to hurt the actors' feelings. In fact, I think it's because we all care so much and enjoy these actors' work so much that we truly want the show and the scripts to be the very best, for them as performers and for us as viewers. If we didn't care, we wouldn't be here. :mrgreen:

*ponders some more* You know what I think really hurt my feelings? Not that she disagreed with me. That's her prerogative. I think it was that she said I was only interested in my own opinion, that I wasn't even interested in what David had to say, and that I was obnoxious and self-centered and rude. That really cut me, because even though I am the first to admit I am NOT a perfect person and sometimes I say things without thinking (oh, the arguments I had with my mother when I was a teenager! yikes!), I have tried really hard to listen to others' points of view and understand where they're coming from. I am definitely not interested in only my opinion. I want to know what other people think. That's why I'm here. That's why I bother to post at all. I want to discuss all sorts of things and hear other perspectives and express my own thoughts. I am genuinely interested in the discussion. So, to read someone say all sorts of things about me that aren't true (or that I don't feel are true), and then have others chime in against me like a rabid pack without even trying to consider what I was saying, that was just so painful.

And to say that I didn't care what David had to say... well, that's just silly. I posted the question that the interviewer gave him; I wanted to know what his response would be. I just happened to disagree with his answer. That doesn't mean I don't care about David or his opinion; I simply disagreed with it. Just as I would say so if I happened to disagree with TJ on something. *gasp* :shock: :shifty: Shame on me! How could I say such a thing! As a TJ fan, I should always always always agree with everything he does and says! :lol:

*giggles* I don't think TJ's interested in having mindless fans. Are you, TJ? ;) Hello? TJ? :doh:

:D

Anyway, I am shaking off their negative energy, and I am glowing in the warm embrace of all of you. Thanks for the validation. (Heh. See what I did there, TJ? Validation? Heeee.) Seriously though, thank you all. I appreciate the support. (Especially your 'don't take any sh**' comment, Jude. LOL.)

I give you all great big HUGS! What a great place filled with wonderful, thoughtful, considerate people. I'm very glad to be here. :romance-grouphug:

Love!
Sherry
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by TJ4ever »

A BIG HUG from me, too, Sherry! :romance-grouphug: :romance-caress:

Sorry I am not around here as often as I like. Very busy, very much in my head at the moment ! (Need a new car, need to do some work in my apartment - NEED MONEY :wink: - so need to keep my job!) Lots of things.

Don't have much time now!
Talk to you later!
Simone. :romance-smileyheart:
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skftex
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Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by skftex »

Oh my Sherry, now I don't know if I can defend you anymore saying that you might disagree with something TJ says! :shock: :shock: :violence-duel:

:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

Hi Simone!! Guess what? I found e-mails from you in the e-mails TJ found the other day from prior to October when we started taking care of the site! At least I know those are completed!! :clap: :clap:

word count: 61
Blessed are they who see beautiful things in humble places where other people see nothing.-Camille Pissarro

TJ4ever
King of the Lab
Posts: 1394
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:23 am
Location: Germany

Re: Offtopic Sofa Time

Post by TJ4ever »

They are! Thanks Sharon! :D

Wait a minute, Sherry might disagree with something TJ says??? :shock: :shock: :shock: OK, you're on your own! :wink: :lol: :wink: :lol: :wink: :lol: :wink: :lol: :wink: :lol: :wink: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by TJ4ever on Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total. word count: 20
Angela: Well, what about love? What do you have to say about love?
Hodgins: It´s overrated-most of the time :-)


Dexter: They make it look so easy-connecting with another human being. It's like no one told them it's the hardest thing in the world.