I felt that TJ got more time than usual to have a go at this one, Callie. Over recent eps he has been shamefully neglected. At least they couldn't avoid giving him a modicum input on this one, albeit grudgingly. I didn't feel that he was portrayed negatively, though opposition to Brennan's character is always a dangerous place to be. But I did feel that his singlemindedness was underlined for plot's sake. It would have been revealing just to have a shot of Jack on his own for a while, showing when the doubts invade. No-one on the team has been shown as a fully-rounded individual since S2 in my view. And Jack has a wonderful sensitive side, it's true. But here's a thought - would he not be keeping it carefully under wraps after being wounded again by Angela? Wouldn't the abrasive side be more to the fore?Callieach wrote: Sure, the potential was there, but Hodgins was barely in this episode! Aside from his little screen time, Hodgins was portrayed in a negative light in every scene.
I know. It's so frustrating, because looking out at the world around them and the people they are close to would build the relationship up less artificially and teach us more about their 'family'.Callieach wrote:Booth would be dead if it weren't for Hodgins. And, of course, this is a fact that will never be brought up because the writers of the show favour focusing solely on Booth and Brennan.
Hmm, well I don't like the deus ex machina at all, I have to confess. Something that happens suspiciously felicitously to facilitate a necessary epiphany or bring a plotline to a rapid conclusion just irritates me!Callieach wrote:The entire Parker plot felt like a very cliched deus ex machina to me. This is, unfortunately, a point I adore in theatre but hate in crime fiction.
ThyneAlone wrote: I felt that TJ got more time than usual to have a go at this one, Callie. Over recent eps he has been shamefully neglected. [...] No-one on the team has been shown as a fully-rounded individual since S2 in my view. And Jack has a wonderful sensitive side, it's true. But here's a thought - would he not be keeping it carefully under wraps after being wounded again by Angela? Wouldn't the abrasive side be more to the fore?
This is a point I wasn't going to mention, but since you did, I'll concur. I came into the series through Kathy Reich's novels and was initially appalled at the character that shared Tempe Brennan's name. But the more Emily amazes me with subtlies, the more I care for TV-Brennan. This episode was definitely example at the way she straddles those fine lines between feelings and thoughts.Jude40 wrote: I especially liked the way Emily Deschanel portrayed Brennans conflict between logic and emotion going with the heart rather than the head for once.
Well, I think we have all been feeling for a while that we have expanded to too many characters to deal adequately with their individual feelings, even in less tense episodes. Possible 'moment' or connection between the core cast members? - in walks Sweets, or a temporary intern, or Booth's brother, or Caroline, or whoever, and it's lost. Because there wasn't enough time to explore the emotions of all the people close to Booth, Cam was overlooked (remember how he felt when he thought she was dying?) and Jared was made to appear callous and shallow.Sinkwriter72 wrote: With “Hero in the Hold,” it seemed there was too much going on and most of it wasn’t dealt with subtlety or with good resolution.
There were moments, glimmers of potential, but it seemed like they pulled back from their own ideas rather than choosing to delve deeply.
Yes, I don't understand why Booth has been so diminished over the last 2 seasons. They have made him look ridiculous a few times in the name of humour, they have brought in other characters to do bits of his job, they have made him depend hugely on other people. To me this is not his essential character. He may be a haunted individual, but he is a strong, resilient and intelligent one.Sinkwriter72 wrote:I would have liked it better if we hadn’t seen Teddy the entire time. It might have had more urgency and intensity if we’d seen Booth having to do all this stuff by himself, working, talking to himself as if Teddy were there. We might have then worried more about the state of his physical and mental well being..it would have been cool if the show had allowed us to see how resourceful Booth can be on his own. It took some of the power out of it, having Teddy there the whole time. It didn’t allow us to see Booth do what he does best. We could have felt more desperation for him...And perhaps we would have seen more desperation coming from him.
Oh yes - and a religious one too.Sinkwriter72 wrote:..they never really gave Booth a solid, intimate moment of his own in this episode. If anything, this would have been the perfect time to show him pray. Even if he didn’t say it all out loud. Even if it was short and sweet, just something he said quietly before trying to escape his prison. I think it would have been something very much in character for him.
Don't get me started on that. She was plucked from nowhere, as Gormagon was; her motives and history went unexplored even though there seemed to be a file on her from somewhere; the physical impossibilities of her atrocities were glaring.Sinkwriter72 wrote:it was fairly implausible that the killer was able to shock Booth, shove him through a window (seriously?), drag him to a car, take him to an abandoned ship, and lock him in a container, all without help and without being noticed by anyone...How did she accomplish these acts on her own? What were the reasons behind the Gravedigger’s behaviors? To bury someone alive...there has to be something that drove her to such vicious, angry, monstrous choices. Calling her insane is too simple an explanation.
All I can suggest is something unbelievably shallow, ie that they really like dressing the characters up when they're on a case. Hallowe'en costumes, party frocks, Booth doing an 007, anything to prevent them going out in proper work clothes. They do all look stunning in evening wear, but it is simply inappropriate.Sinkwriter72 wrote:As Jude said, how is it possible that no one noticed or cared that the guest of honor didn’t show up for the event? Why use that as a reason for Booth and Brennan to meet up?...why didn’t they change out of their fancy attire after the Gravedigger’s call came in?
Was it perhaps a misguided attempt to hark back to Hodgins' dislike of parties, small talk and anyone from his 'other life' who might be around? If it was, it might have been more credible had Brennan not been guest of honour. And the party was a ludicrous pretext anyway, as you say.Sinkwriter72 wrote:Also, why wasn’t Hodgins in a tux? Everyone else was dressed up -- he wasn’t going to attend an occasion where his own boss, his fellow colleague, was to be honored?
All I can do here is nod in agreement and shake my head in bewilderment. Difficult to master simultaneously. Perotta is another peripheral who is startlingly pointless.Sinkwriter72 wrote:Why is it that the FBI didn’t really give a damn about one of their own being kidnapped by a serial killer from an ongoing investigation? ...not involving the FBI at all is one of those plot points that defies believability. If they had had one scene where they managed to convince the FBI to allow them to do the examining of the evidence, there might have been more time for more important moments than all that FBI and military ridiculousness with Agent Perotta and Jared Booth.
I'm starting to think Jared was a mistake in the first place. He hasn't really told us that much about Booth, he's something of a caricature for whom it is hard to feel any understanding or empathy, and there is no room for him in this story, though I can see why the writers had to use him.Sinkwriter72 wrote:Jared didn’t seem particularly concerned about the possibility of losing his brother, and in the end, the writers didn’t even resolve anything involving his character... didn’t even have him re-connect with his brother. It was great to see Jared go out on a limb after all the times Booth had done it for him, but his sacrifice might have had more impact if he and Booth had actually connected before the episode concluded.
Another thing that has been irritating me and of which Sweets' introduction is a fine concrete example; all of a sudden we need unsubtle words to tell us how people feel about one another, rather than actions or expressions? Worse, we need a person to tell us, even beyond some of the cardboard dialogue (especially between Hodgins and Angela and, needless to say, Brennan and Booth)? It's not as if the viewers aren't of reasonable intelligence.Sinkwriter72 wrote:That brings us to Sweets. Here was one of those times where his character actually could have had a real purpose in the episode...Instead...the writers played him for a laugh; they kicked him out; then they brought him back anyway. Did Angela really need his help with the video camera equipment at the cemetery? Wouldn’t it have been more dramatic if she’d realized that the site was booby-trapped and had to alert Brennan and Hodgins on her own? It’s almost always better to show, not tell.
The Sweets use grows ever more bizarre. They use him when they don't need him and don't make anything of his appropriate moments. They should make up their minds whether he is comic relief, a genuine team member, or - my preference - an occasional helper when the case demands. Demands a profiler. Not an interviewer or someone out in the field.Sinkwriter72 wrote:One thing I liked about Sweets in this episode was when he seemed upset and repulsed at the others’ idea of using torture. That scene should have been his moment to shine. Instead, he became one of the extra bodies that kept the episode from accomplishing a richly, emotionally connective experience with the viewers because there was too much going on and too many people involved...they skirted around the edges of Hodgins’ rage and Brennan’s compartmentalization of everything.
You're so right! The feel of the filming was completely different, less involved, less urgent. They seemed to want to move away from emotions to the wider picture. I suppose it might have been a conscious decision to show things from the criminal's POV (all those little chess pieces a long way off), but if so, it didn't really work.Sinkwriter72 wrote:The writers hinted at each person’s emotions, touched on them, but never really got up close and personal. they kept us as viewers at arms’ length through the pacing of the episode, the writing, and in the way the shots were filmed...In the original, we were trapped in the car with Hodgins and Brennan; everything was tight and intimate. In “Hero in the Hold,”...many of the scenes seemed to be in open space; it wasn’t stiflingly intense like the original episode. we saw a lot of wide-angled shots, from a distance, from above, never really getting close to the characters. They hit the emotion for a second, then pulled back and moved on.
It's a little more than he's had recently but still not enough to show his full range. That moment when he screamed at the camera was astonishing, as you say, but you can't act as effectively in a vacuum, and as you say:Sinkwriter72 wrote:-- TJ managed to convey his character’s anxiety and tight mood physically...wonderful, subtle facial expressions that say so much without the need for words...marvelous tension between Brennan and Hodgins where she accuses him of stealing the FBI evidence. The look on Hodgins’ face in that moment was remarkable. TJ played it well; it was like there was something there but he was forcing himself to mask his true emotions, like Hodgins was unwilling to admit anything but deep down we could see something stirring up in him, a mess of emotions. I kept wishing that they had given him at least one scene like he had in “Aliens in a Spaceship.” I don’t think any of the actors were given enough room to sit with their character’s emotions...they only touched on everyone’s feelings and then pulled back and moved on.
At this point I am really beginning to feel that you could rewrite this very well! Ever tried that? They have missed out on a lot of opportunities for emotional continuity.Sinkwriter72 wrote:Nor did they bother to show a good reaction shot from Brennan, who was standing right next to him, or from Angela, who was watching him on the video feed Instead, they pulled up into this long camera shot from above, staring down at him and Brennan. I wish we’d seen Angela try to speak to him about it, express her concerns about his rage, or try to comfort him or squeeze his hand to let him know she remembered the aftermath of what he’d gone through the first time. There may have been terrific guilt on Angela’s part that could have been explored. She was there for him so beautifully the first time around; this time, she was disconnected from him.
I reckon this would have worked better as a 2-parter, I really do, given how much they were trying to squeeze in and how much they missed. They could have resolved these issues and looked at others in two episodes. As you say - replete with roads not taken!Sinkwriter72 wrote:We didn’t get to see Hodgins with Booth. We didn’t get to see Brennan and Hodgins reconcile...no one really had a scene to resolve their stories or their experiences. We didn’t see Hodgins feel closure at long last (or possibly, not feel quite satisfied after everything he’d been through). We didn’t see him reconnect with Brennan or Angela. We didn’t see Cam get to be a part of any of it, which isn’t fair because she did use to date Booth; she’s entitled to have feelings and concern for him, too. The powerful feelings of family and teamwork that were prevalent in the first episode weren’t found here.
...And there is no comparison to the gentle time they took in “Aliens in a Spaceship..”
ThyneAlone wrote:Wow, Sherry, that was magnificent. Such detailed, inspired observation.
*nodding* Exactly. Excellent points, Steph.ThyneAlone wrote:Well, I think we have all been feeling for a while that we have expanded to too many characters to deal adequately with their individual feelings, even in less tense episodes. Possible 'moment' or connection between the core cast members? - in walks Sweets, or a temporary intern, or Booth's brother, or Caroline, or whoever, and it's lost. Because there wasn't enough time to explore the emotions of all the people close to Booth, Cam was overlooked (remember how he felt when he thought she was dying?) and Jared was made to appear callous and shallow.
ThyneAlone wrote:All I can suggest is something unbelievably shallow, ie that they really like dressing the characters up when they're on a case. Hallowe'en costumes, party frocks, Booth doing an 007, anything to prevent them going out in proper work clothes. They do all look stunning in evening wear, but it is simply inappropriate.
Sinkwriter72 wrote:Also, why wasn’t Hodgins in a tux? Everyone else was dressed up -- he wasn’t going to attend an occasion where his own boss, his fellow colleague, was to be honored?
Good point. I did think about that, how Hodgins tries to avoid going to parties, especially to stay away from those 'other life' individuals from the ritzy set. I like the continuity of it, if that was the writers' intent. Still, like you and I discussed, why make Brennan the guest of honor, then? That's one invite he probably wouldn't be able to avoid (and probably wouldn't want to avoid, given that he is friends with Brennan and would be proud of her accomplishment). *sigh* Plot points of silliness. Keep it simple(r)!ThyneAlone wrote:Was it perhaps a misguided attempt to hark back to Hodgins' dislike of parties, small talk and anyone from his 'other life' who might be around? If it was, it might have been more credible had Brennan not been guest of honour. And the party was a ludicrous pretext anyway, as you say.
I know, I really struggled with that one. They brought him into the season, so they can't ignore him because he is Booth's brother so it's reasonable that he'd be contacted if Booth were kidnapped and in such danger. But like you said, his presence has been caricature-like, and this story already had so many people to cover, he ended up getting in the way. Especially because they didn't have time to give him and Booth a moment together in the end, to really reinforce the impact of Jared finally doing right by his brother. If they didn't have time to do it right, why not wait and give Jared his own episode with Booth, where they could devote the time to advancing the brothers' story? Or, stop pushing the Booth/Brennan agenda so much and give up some of the screen time for some of these other character possibilities, like Jared, or Hodgins, or Cam, etc.?ThyneAlone wrote:I'm starting to think Jared was a mistake in the first place. He hasn't really told us that much about Booth, he's something of a caricature for whom it is hard to feel any understanding or empathy, and there is no room for him in this story, though I can see why the writers had to use him.
UGH. Exactly. Exactly! Do not even get me started on that! It drives me nuts!ThyneAlone wrote:Another thing that has been irritating me and of which Sweets' introduction is a fine concrete example; all of a sudden we need unsubtle words to tell us how people feel about one another, rather than actions or expressions? Worse, we need a person to tell us, even beyond some of the cardboard dialogue (especially between Hodgins and Angela and, needless to say, Brennan and Booth)? It's not as if the viewers aren't of reasonable intelligence.
Sinkwriter72 wrote:Nor did they bother to show a good reaction shot from Brennan, who was standing right next to [Hodgins], or from Angela, who was watching him on the video feed. Instead, they pulled up into this long camera shot from above, staring down at him and Brennan. I wish we’d seen Angela try to speak to him about it, express her concerns about his rage, or try to comfort him or squeeze his hand to let him know she remembered the aftermath of what he’d gone through the first time. There may have been terrific guilt on Angela’s part that could have been explored. She was there for him so beautifully the first time around; this time, she was disconnected from him.
Have I ever tried that? Hmm. In what way do you mean? As a spec script or screenplay, or as a piece of fiction like a story, or ?ThyneAlone wrote:At this point I am really beginning to feel that you could rewrite this very well! Ever tried that? They have missed out on a lot of opportunities for emotional continuity.
I think this is an excellent point, Steph. It was such an important episode, with so much to cover for so many characters, it really would have done much better as a 2-parter. More time to do it really well! Alas. Alas.ThyneAlone wrote:I reckon this would have worked better as a 2-parter, I really do, given how much they were trying to squeeze in and how much they missed. They could have resolved these issues and looked at others in two episodes. As you say - replete with roads not taken!